For an entire week, Israelis held their collective breath during a tortuous nightly ritual: the release of hostages from Hamas captivity. Images of the released hostages being reunited with their families gave Israelis some solace in these difficult times. After the reunions and the medical examinations, it was time for questioning by security officials. But how does one go about questioning civilians who have returned in such a fragile state? Moreover, how does one question children who have been freed from captivity. How to navigate between the need to extract any piece of information about the hostages who remained behind in Gaza – information that could save their lives – and the understanding that one ill-judged question, even an open question such as asking how they were treated – could trigger the trauma that the former hostage has sublimated in order to survive their incarceration and life thereafter.

One person who has been advising the defense establishment on this matter admitted in a conversation with Shomrim that “it won’t be perfect, and mistakes will probably be made. We do not really have anyone in the world we can learn from when it comes to treating children who were kidnapped by a terrorist organization.” 

Senior mental healthcare officials – those who have submitted their professional opinions about the right way to treat these children – as well as those running the departments in which the former child hostages have been treated, refuse to answer many of the questions that arise in light of this highly sensitive situation, wherein children are questioned even before they have undergone any significant psychological treatment to help them process the experience.

Some of them, it seems, are afraid of being seen as harming national security, since even the advice that they are being asked to give is passive. They are not able to ask, of their own initiative, questions about what happens in the interview room from a mental health perspective. Rather, they are only allowed to respond to questions that defense officials pose to them. Others, it seems, are worried that any future work with state-run institutions could be jeopardized if they are seen as critical at this time. The Haruv Institute, for example, published a guide for the Welfare Ministry on how best to receive former child hostages. Representatives of the institute gave many interviews about their guide, but steadfastly refused to respond to concerns about questioning.

When Shomrim pointed out to one mental health expert that some of the Israeli youths returned from Hamas captivity were questioned for three hours with only brief breaks, he described it as “scandalous. That’s too much for children who are in such an emotionally disturbed state.” Another senior professional rebuffed Shomrim’s questions with repeated suggestions they should be directed to security officials. One person who did pick up the gauntlet, however, was Prof. Doron Gothelf, the chief child psychiatrist at Sheba Medical Center, where some of the released child hostages were taken. “I say what I believe is the right thing to do when interviewing children about what happened to them so as not to do them any more emotional harm,” he told Shomrim. “I’m not sure about the rules by which things are currently being conducted and what the minimum age for questioning is.” Gothelf’s recommendations are presented below.

Shomrim’s request for a comment from the security establishment was not answered. An investigation conducted by Shomrim revealed that, thus far, the defense establishment has only interviewed teenage hostages. Welfare Ministry experts in interviewing children under the age of 14 have not yet been called to participate in any of the questions. In some cases, parents refused to let the security establishment interview their children, citing their fragile mental condition, and instead relayed to investigators what their children said. In general, when dealing with very young children, the defense establishment has made do with testimony from the adults who were with them. It is possible, however, that at some point in the future, these children will also be asked for complementary testimony, on the understanding that children sometimes take in details that adults might have missed.

Many people are asking what special training the investigators have been given to help them when they question child and teen hostages. The Welfare Ministry’s Social and Personal Services Authority, along with the Haruv Institute, provided a two-day training session, which included simulations. The sessions were conducted by social workers who, under normal circumstances, question minors about sex crimes and violence. This is based on the assumption that the symptoms of the trauma experienced by the hostages are similar to those experienced by children who suffered violence and extreme neglect. The sessions were based, in part, on information that had been shared by welfare services in Ukraine following the return from captivity of children kidnapped by Russia during the war there.

The lessons that Israel learned from the questioning of prisoners-of-war who returned after the Yom Kippur War were implemented in the case of Gilad Shalit, but now – since they are dealing with civilians and especially children – these lessons are less relevant for the security establishment. “On more than one occasion, soldiers captured in 1973 were treated during questioning like traitors, as investigators tried to figure out what information they had given to the enemy,” says Shimshon Liebman, who works with families of the missing and kidnapped and who spearheaded the public campaign for the return of Gilad Shalit. “When Gilad came home, all the soldiers from the Yom Kippur War, who are members of the “Awake at Night” NGO, which aims to help and improve the situation of IDF soldiers who have returned from captivity, fought to make sure that he was treated differently. He was taken straight home. He wasn’t interrogated but questioned. The establishment treated him differently because of the amazing coming together. In the current situation, suspicion is not relevant, and the questioning will naturally be gentler, because we’re dealing with civilians. This is even more true when it comes to children. But how to do it? I don’t know.”

Many people are also asking whether it would not be appropriate to bring in social workers with expertise in talking to children for the older youth, in light of this unique and uniquely sensitive situation. Dr. Itamar Barnea is a former fighter pilot who was taken captive by the Egyptians during the Yom Kippur War. He went on to lead the IDF’s Disabled Veterans Unit and was involved in the psychological rehabilitation of Gilad Shalit when he was freed from Hamas after five years. Barnea, who now serves as chief psychologist at NATAL – the Israel Trauma and Resiliency Center, refused to answer any of Shomrim’s questions on this issue. He stressed that he “deals with adults, not children.” In other words: there is a difference.

To what extent, then, has the defense establishment taken these nuances into consideration? It seems that it will take time until the families, who are also being instructed on what they may and may not talk about, feel comfortable enough to share.

An investigation conducted by Shomrim revealed that, thus far, the defense establishment has only interviewed teenage hostages. Welfare Ministry experts in interviewing children under the age of 14 have not yet been called to participate in any of the questions.

“On the television news, we see them all apparently very happy, jumping around with their parents and looking good – but that is not the reality. These kids can't fall asleep, and their nights are horrific. There are some children that we do not push, but we can see how hard it is for them to talk about it, or they are not talking at all."

‘Investigators are Used to Investigating The Bad Guys’ 

There are precious few investigators in the security establishment who have been trained to interview minors, and it is safe to assume that those who have, are not exactly encouraged to show the kind of sensitivity and empathy that are needed now. “To put it simply,” says one former senior member of the Israeli defense establishment, “investigators are used to investigating the bad guys. Here, they are interviewing the good guys, who are giving testimony and are not suspected of any wrongdoing.”

In light of the concern over sexual assault, are the interview teams made up of women?

“There are not enough women in the investigating teams for entire teams to be made up of women. As far as I know, the teams are mixed gender.”

What information exactly do you expect to get from them?

“There aren’t many secrets coming out, and these are also interviews with a very high risk of contamination. In order to get an indication from a child about what we call a ‘stable version,’ and to be sure that it isn’t a fantasy or a repetition of things that they heard from someone else, we have to be incredibly professional.

“The most important thing is to find out who was with them and who was not, and what physical and mental condition they are in. We do this so that Hamas cannot claim that it cannot locate one of the hostages or that one of them was killed, if one of the child hostages says that he saw that person alive. Like in the case of Hila Rotem, who was freed by Hamas without her mother. Hamas claimed it didn’t know where she was, but Hila told us that her mother was with her until two days before the release.

“This is not testimony that can help us build up a profile of a specific kidnapper. We’re not asking them about the terrorists’ height or hair color – unless such testimony fits in with one of the terrorists we have captured.”

“The most important thing is to find out who was with them and who was not, and what physical and mental condition they are in. We do this so that Hamas cannot claim that it cannot locate one of the hostages or that one of them was killed, if one of the child hostages says that he saw that person alive."

The testimony can, however, be used as part of the international legal case that Israel has launched as part of its struggle to win over global public support. As Kan 11 reported, testimony and forensic evidence from their time in captivity, along with pathological findings and marks on the body, help to define and categorize the war crimes that Hamas committed against the hostages. The question that needs to be addressed, however, is what price is being paid for this.

In late October, a committee set up by the National Post Trauma Council submitted its recommendations with regard to the freed hostages to the director-general of the Health Ministry. The document, the title of which was “Principles for Accompanying Freed Hostages and Their Families,” makes no specific mention of how to treat children, but it does refer to the questioning stage. This is what it has to say: “Questioning: If avoidable, that is preferable. If there is no choice, the questioning should be brief and after meeting with the family, and in the presence of at least one close relative. Remember: Not an interrogation but questioning/investigation/efforts to learn. Try to explain the rationale: ‘I am asking because we might be able to use your information to save others,’ or ‘I am asking because the intelligence information is important to us, but if you cannot answer, that’s understandable and totally fine.’ And, in any case, make sure to point out that the information is not ‘critical’ for saving lives and that ‘not everything rests on the shoulders of the freed hostage.’ The questioning must be done without judgment, and we must ask the person if they feel capable of answering.”

Gothelf adds: “We have to be careful that we don’t exert any pressure in order to get information or to ask for details that are unnecessary. We have to be sensitive to issues that can lead to trauma – including violence and sexual assault – and we have to be alert to signs that the interviewee is experiencing trauma. If the interviewee is overwhelmed, becomes agitated, disconnects, and rolls their eyes – we have to ask them if they are capable of continuing, how they feel about the questions, and the pace of the interview. We have to give them control and agency during the interview and to offer them breaks.”

One of the members of the committee is Dr. Lilach Rachamim, a clinical psychologist and physician whose area of expertise is treating acute trauma and who has headed Israeli aid delegations to disaster areas. “What kind of experience remains with the children after questioning depends on who is doing the questioning, what they ask, and how the questions are phrased,” she told Shomrim. “A child could see the questioning as the continuation of a problematic situation – maybe I did something wrong because they are asking me all these questions. I am being tested. In contrast, at certain stages and with the right preparatory work, such an interview can also be valuable and significant for the child.”

Explain.

“I treat children who are giving evidence after sexual assault and who want to give their testimony. With proper preparation, it can be a hugely empowering experience, of taking control of the incident, so that these people will not be able to cause harm anymore – not to me and not to others.

I don’t know how the released child hostages will be questioned exactly, but if they are interviewed shortly after their return, some of them will still be in a very problematic and emotionally unstable place. I understand that speed is of the essence in order to get information about the remaining hostages, so if you get the right training and if you are intelligent and sensitive, if you respect the children who don’t want to talk and you make them feel that that’s okay, you can cross this hurdle too.”

What should any child who is willing and able to talk be asked?

“This would not be the place to delve deep into the trauma and to ask about traumatic experiences. Instead, they need to ask informative questions and provide the child with an experience of control and value. We have to make them feel like heroes for doing what they are doing and not question them for too long.”

In your document, you brought up the issue of guilt and shame, which many of the freed hostages might feel. What could the children feel ashamed about?

“That they wet themselves during the incident, or that they shouted or cried. They may also feel ashamed for having thought about themselves and not about others.”

The document published by the Haruv Institute states that, “some of the children may tend to blame themselves for what happened to their parents. They might think, for example, ‘If only I had been quiet, maybe the terrorists wouldn’t have burst into the saferoom.’ It’s important to tell them that none of what happened is their fault and that the only people to blame are those who used violence. We have to tell them that we’re now doing everything we can to make sure that these things never happen again.”

Dr. Lilach Rachamim: "A child could see the questioning as the continuation of a problematic situation – maybe I did something wrong because they are asking me all these questions. I am being tested. In contrast, at certain stages and with the right preparatory work, such an interview can also be valuable and significant for the child.”

‘The Psychologist is the Representative of the Child Being Questioned’

The third stage, as mentioned, after being reunited with their families and undergoing a medical examination, is questioning. For those hostages who are too excited to sleep and just want to talk about and share their experiences, this can happen on the same night that they are freed. For others, it only takes place the next day.

Apart from a family member – who must be present when a minor is being questioned – there is also a clinical psychologist in the room. They do not question the minor, however, their role is to represent the child during questioning, so as to protect them from questions that could trigger trauma and to be assertive with the interviewer – even insisting that the interview end – if they feel that the child is in no fit state to continue.

Most of the attention at the moment is on the teenaged hostages who, it turns out, have a phenomenal memory, just as the IDF was delighted with the information that rescued soldier Ori Magidish was able to provide. This time, too, security officials were astonished by the memory, heightened senses, and analytical capabilities of those who were released.

“They underwent hours of questioning, and even though we are under the impression that it was done with maximum delicacy, it returned some to the most traumatic moments,” says one expert with knowledge of the issue. “Sometimes they will sit with the interviewer for three or four hours straight".

“They underwent hours of questioning, and even though we are under the impression that it was done with maximum delicacy, it returned some to the most traumatic moments,” says one expert with knowledge of the issue. “Sometimes they will sit with the interviewer for three or four hours straight, with only short breaks, and then they stop and summon them again. It seems that the interviewers are worried that the children will forget or want to forget what happened, since the brain has ways of sublimating such events. We realized that we have to get as much information out of them as soon as possible and to maximize the potential before they are sent home.”

Relatives who have been interviewed in the media describe incredibly tough situations that no one – especially not a child – should have to experience and see.

“On the television news, we see them all apparently very happy, jumping around with their parents and looking good – but that is not the reality. These kids can't fall asleep, and their nights are horrific. There are some children that we do not push, but we can see how hard it is for them to talk about it, or they are not talking at all. And there are others who feel a strong need to talk about it all, and then it’s a lot easier. There are also some who do not have the skills needed to tell us what happened to them in a way that will aid the investigation. People looking on from the side do not understand why we sometimes insist on certain questions, which seem stupid or superfluous, but there is a reason for them.”

How can we trust a child to tell us what condition another hostage is in? Indeed, how can we be sure that such an extreme experience hasn’t driven them into a fantasy world?

“We assume that it’s cross-checked and that there are some things that are unequivocal, even if they were true at the time they were said. For example, remembering that there was someone with you who we had defined as missing.”

Some of what was said in testimony was published in the Israeli media, when relatives of the freed hostages gave interviews following their meetings with members of the war cabinet and in speeches that they gave at a rally on Saturday night. Although it does appear that they were warned not to go into too much detail on certain issues, some of the information did get out. “Of course, we know that a relative who sits in on the interview can then go and talk or tell other relatives who then give an interview,” a former defense official told Shomrim. “We cannot control what the family says. If they decide to let things out, then that’s their decision. Let’s just say that we are more invested in discretion than in secrecy.”

Galit Yitzhaki-Dreizan is a psychotherapist and criminal profiler who specializes in locating missing people. Together with Prof. Keren Shalev, the founder of the Missing Persons Research Group at the University of Portsmouth, she advises therapists working with the families of hostages. In light of the intensity of emotions that are stirred up in interviews with the families, she says that “they are in a state of ongoing trauma, which is exacerbated by having to listen to the traumatic experiences of the hostages who have been freed. They imagine what the child has gone through, and sometimes that is just as hard as experiencing it in reality. When the families share things with the media, I see it as part of their desire to share their load and to ask for the right kind of support.”

What can we ask the children to ensure that the harm is minimized?

“The questions should be designed to extract information. The goal is not to deal with the trauma, and not to raise sensitive or confusing issues. A confusing interview could cause feelings of guilt instead of strengthening and healing.”

Could Stockholm Syndrome, when a hostage develops an emotional connection to their captor and is afraid that they will hurt them, cause that kind of guilt?

“In captivity – and these Israeli hostages were held for what is considered a long time – people develop the capability to survive. The ability to create a good connection and to use it is significant, and it should be maintained throughout life. Proper questioning will not harm these abilities. On the contrary. Therapists can strengthen these feelings and can tell a former hostage who might be experiencing guilt over a positive bond that was formed with the captor: ‘We understand that he is important to you and how amazing it was that he saw you, because you are a special child/person and you’re able to take care of yourself.’ We do not go down the path of syndromes and pathology. That would not be right.”